Introduction and Background

Speaker 0:00

My conversation today is with Danny Schwantes. Danny currently leads payments for Portico, which is a student management platform for career education. He has over 15 years of experience in the financial industry, and he's worked for payment processors like WorldPay, as well as on a team with me at Automatic. Danny previously received his Masters of Science in Management and Leadership from Western Governors University, or WGU. That's part of why I wanted to talk to him. I wanted to find out more about his experience at WGU and see if he had any tips for navigating the program as a working adult. With his background in educational technology, he was also able to share insights into the value of non-traditional education in today's job market. Now, before we jump to the interview, I have a couple quick announcements. First, this is the first episode of the Degree Strategy Podcast. That means you can now find the video version on YouTube and an audio version at DegreeStrategyPodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Second, if you're currently trying to decide whether going back to school is right for you and how to choose from all of your online college options, I've put together a free online college blueprint to help you discover your priorities so that you pick the right school the first time. I'll leave a link in the YouTube description as well as in the podcast show notes. And with that out of the way, let's get to my conversation with Danny. Danny, it is good to see you. It's been a while. You and I worked together a few years ago. Um, we started working together a few years ago, and uh it's been about a year, year and a half since we've worked together. So it's great to see you. And today we are talking about your experience at WGU, Western Governors University, because I think a lot of the people who follow my channel are in this position of not knowing if they should go back to school and if they should go back to school, what kind of environment is right for them and what kind of a program? And so I know you have a lot of valuable information, having gotten your master's degree through them. So let's talk about it.

Deciding to Pursue a Master's Degree

Speaker 1 2:13

All right, great, great to be here.

Speaker 2:14

So, my first question for you is what was the specific moment or the catalyst for going back to get a master's degree at this point in your career?

Speaker 1 2:25

Great question. So when I was going through, and my background is in payments, um, trying to work my way up through the ranks and get a little bit more access to higher-level positions in the career field that I was in, I had noticed that management, leadership, and other capabilities had not yet been part of my wheelhouse. So I started to look around to see first locally in the state of Florida what degrees were something within the realm of capabilities for me to attain in a timely fashion. Um, but at the same time, I wanted to make sure that I could get through it quickly. I had been going through some career changes at a rapid pace, and I needed my certifications and capabilities to be known as I was starting to work my way towards interviews and new job fronts. So speed was at the forefront of my mind. So I started to look very quickly back into the online world, which had been very new to me actually. I had always been on campus and in person, but I was willing to take the chance. And WGU popped up along with a few others that I thought were great contenders.

Speaker 3:41

I think that's a really uh identifiable moment. Uh, I think a lot of us are at that point in our lives, uh midlife or even earlier, where we're looking at our career and we're saying, okay, I've gotten to one point, and what is it gonna take to get me to that next level? And sometimes going back to school is exactly the right thing for that. Definitely.

Speaker 1 4:05

Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly it.

Speaker 4:07

Why did you choose a competency-based program instead of the traditional semester program? Like what helped you make that decision ultimately?

Choosing Competency-Based Education

Speaker 1 4:17

You know, I am okay, my patience level is very short. And I struggle when it comes to thinking about a traditional degree program of two, maybe even three years to get a master's degree. Um, you know, similar, like I said, I I really wanted to move with haste as fast as humanly possible, still soak in the information and get something out of it, but be able to proceed my career path in a timeline of my choice, not the choice of a schooling that is more traditional, two years. Lots of coursework getting in the way of potentially my actual career itself. I didn't want to intermingle things. So competency allowed me to not only move at a faster speed, but also prove I am coming with information already in my thatchet. I don't need to go back and relearn everything. I could apply what I know now and learn what I don't know.

Speaker 5:18

That makes sense. And then I I identify with that, you know, the the reasoning there uh for competency-based. Um, did you have any fears though? Were you afraid at all?

Speaker 1 5:28

Yeah, it's a really good point. Um, I am a hands-on person. I work on cars, I work on houses, I do everything where I am better in the field in real life. So it was a huge blocker in the moment, although I had been working remote at that point to now take my education to a remote facility, my house. And that created a lot of concerns in regards to am I going to be able to retain things well enough to test or produce papers, um, to be able to have conversations one-off with professors or other students in my same course and curriculum, uh, to which I would be able to actually move at a good speed still and retain information, but not have that hands-on approach that I had been somewhat accustomed to throughout my entire educational career up until that point.

Adjusting to Online Learning

Speaker 6:20

Yeah. Yeah. And and in looking back, do you feel like when you got into it, do you feel like those things were still challenges or were you kind of surprised by what the first course was where I realized this is the way of the future in in many regards.

Speaker 1 6:40

Uh, you know, there will always be um educational formats where being in person is absolutely paramount. But for degrees such as mine, where a lot of it could be remote first, remote friendly, and and virtual in general, um, no, it it felt at home. I mean, I spend my entire work day on a computer and nothing really felt different at that point. I'm just learning things rather than producing things, for example.

Speaker 7:06

Yeah. I did find uh when I was working on my program, uh, my program is very uh at Umpy was very writing-based as opposed to tests. And I sort of treated it like, okay, my boss has told me to do a report for the day. So this is my work. And and I just treating it as another work assignment kind of helped.

Speaker 1 7:27

Absolutely. No, I totally agree.

Speaker 7:29

So, so uh I guess it sounds like it was a pretty easy adjustment once you got into it. Were there challenges? What were some of the hard parts of of adjusting to going back to school? Maybe it's time or structure or anything.

Speaker 1 7:43

Time is a huge component. And then working with other people. That was still a requirement for some of the courses that I was taking. So again, now you have, let's say, eight to ten different people, different individuals with their own lives that they carry on day to day. You need to align schedules after work, after, you know, kid pickup from school, running to go get groceries, whatever it may be. And you find yourself going later and later into the day, especially as you expand multiple different time zones. So the time allocation from a professional perspective and also working to be very closely aligned with others' timetables as well, to make sure that you still meet the timetables that the course sets out for you. Um, because I finished my master's in one semester or one course time frame. So it was very, very not rushed, but I had to use every single second to its fullest. And that made it a little bit difficult. That was a hurdle we had all had to kind of um get over.

Speaker 8:44

Yeah, I think that would be challenging. Uh, I know having done some of the brick and mortar college time and even in high school and things like that, anytime you get a group project, there's somebody, there's always somebody letting the team down.

Speaker 1 8:58

Always. Always. Yes.

Speaker 9:00

I mean, I guess that's a good thing for work. Work skills uh translates into the office.

Time Management and Structure

Speaker 1 9:09

True. That is very true. Yeah. Yeah. That and that applied even after I finished. You know, there were things that I needed to walk away with. Um, again, my my focus was in management and leadership. And ironically enough, somebody had to step up to the table for those group projects or papers, whatever it may be, to lead and manage through the process. So ironically enough, it was a pain point, but at the same time, it was a learning experience.

Speaker 9:33

That makes sense. That makes sense. So uh uh setting aside the pain points of a group project for for most of your studies, how did you realistically carve out that time in your schedule? And did you have a really structured way of doing it? Did you kind of go off the cuff? What what did you do?

Speaker 1 9:54

I had to adapt over time. So originally I started very structured, but life is not structured. So things would inevitably pop up, get in the way, uh, still adapted to it, overcame it, got back to the grindstone and and and worked my way through it. But eventually, as time permitted, I realized that if I just set a block of time three hours a couple times a week versus just an hour every day, I was more able to get the work done, maybe go into the next course level work and just maybe skim it, see what, see what's coming next, understand the process of what's involved. So then that way I walked into the next day chunk of time where I could actually have a bit of a prerequisite mindset to what's going on, start it, and then I would just continuously repeat that. So I always would finish something and just barely start something else. And that for me worked really well.

Speaker 10:48

I think that's uh I think they have a name for it, the zygarnik effect, where you um leave, you start the next thing a little bit before you finish for the day. I love it. I use that as well.

Speaker 1 11:01

I have to, yeah. It works really well. If if you if mentally you can adapt to that, it works really well.

Speaker 11:07

Yeah. I well, I I really like your tip about doing chunks of time instead of an hour a day. I know everybody's schedule is different. And so for some people, yeah, an hour a day might work. But having a little bit of a longer chunk, if that works for you, that's really nice because you can kind of dive deep on something and not feel like you're just picking up little fragments here and there.

Speaker 1 11:28

And that goes back to my original point of I wanted to make sure as short of a time frame as I wanted to complete this in, that I was still taking something from it. I didn't want to just rush through it, get the piece of paper, and move on. And I was actually able to accommodate that throughout this process. So that was about maybe a third of the way through. I realized what I had been doing wasn't great for me, transition to this. And I started retaining more the courses became not necessarily easier, but uh more manageable to intake the information and reproduce a quality paper or test or group project, whatever it was.

Speaker 12:01

That's

Staying Motivated

Speaker 12:02

great. How did you stay motivated through all this? I mean, it sounds like it it got a little bit easier or faster over time, but did your motivation ever f wane?

Speaker 1 12:13

Well, um, the the realistic answer to that is time and money. Uh I wanted to complete it in in one semester, one course length work of time, um, so that I didn't have to pay for another semester and keep going. And that was the most attractive quality to me for WGU to say, if you want to go this fast, it's up to you. And that was really honestly the main reason why I decided to go that route. Competency, which worked well for me, and time-based, which I can decide that once I find a good rhythm, I'm usually able to accomplish things.

Speaker 12:51

It it's nice for people who want to go fast to be able to go fast. Um, but the the great thing that I've found, at least about uh competency-based education, is that if something comes up, if there's an emergency at work or at home and you can't go as fast as you'd expected, it allows for that flexibility. Um and it sounds like you you took advantage of that um to to get through it quickly, which is fantastic.

Speaker 1 13:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 13:19

While we're talking about that motivation piece, did the school provide you with support or or anything to kind of keep you going? Did you have advisors or were there groups, organizations, anything like that?

Support from WGU

Speaker 1 13:32

They did. This is where they really win the day as well. Obviously, again, life gets in the way, things come up. You sometimes need that person on your shoulder to tap you once in a while and say, hey, how are things going? Where are we at? So the way it worked is you get an advisor and we met weekly to start. And that can expand out to every two weeks, especially as programs go longer, or maybe you've moved quickly enough that two weeks is a reasonable time frame. So the gentleman I had was not necessarily pushing in a negative way, but in a very positive way. He brought up concerns, questions, capabilities of timetables, what's coming up next, what to look forward to, even some study tips and tricks on this particular course that he's seen be either tricky or um, you know, sometimes put a pervertal in the wrong places, and it's not meant to do that. And he he really unblocked a lot of the, let's say, mental cloudiness that sometimes comes from I'm in a course and I'm already starting to think about the next thing. How do I unravel all these different spiderwebs of learnings, uh, producing materials? And then, of course, even just I have it, the anxiety of taking tests and making sure that we don't have to retake. There's only so many retakes. So thankfully that was never a problem, but it was obviously a concern in the very beginning, and he was able to help alleviate a lot of that up front.

Speaker 14:55

That's fantastic. I hadn't heard much. I had heard that there were advisors at WGU, but um I think some people maybe don't uh take advantage of that as much as they should or could.

Speaker 1 15:10

Um It it is all but a requirement. And at first, I'll admit, you know, I was a little, oh, just let me get going and and and do it. But within that first couple weeks, the benefits were widely seen. Uh I was moving quicker, I was getting things unblocked. And honestly, it was just good conversation overall. There was no pressure with it whatsoever. It's just good, honest conversation, banter at times. How's life? How's the family? All that kind of stuff. So honestly, I really appreciate it. They did a really good job.

Speaker 15:41

That's

Real-World Applications of Learning

Speaker 15:42

amazing. And and so nice to have somebody who is who has the knowledge of the program and the intricacies, you know, themselves and can really guide you in that way. That's fantastic.

Speaker 1 15:55

Yeah, it was great.

Speaker 15:56

Yeah. Wow. Okay. So moving into sort of how this has impacted your life outside of it, was there anything that you any specific project or anything you did at work where you were able to apply what you learned where you're like, because you know, people always talk about, oh, I'm never going to use this in the real world. But I at least I found for my degree, um, there are real world applications. So what about you?

Speaker 1 16:24

Very much so. Um, so in my current role, uh working in the educational technology software as a service side of the house, again, still in payments, um, there is a lot of different approaches that need to be taken when you deal on a professional level with people from the schools and trade schools, vocational schools that we work with, as well as the people inside the company, which many of them do come from that world already. So they're so used to it. So being able to take a lot of the learnings that I got from my master's work at WGU was ascertaining the individuals that I work with, understanding where they're coming from, the work that they do, and how to build a cadence and approach that works for them. So obviously that's a very individual basis perspective. But then where WGU also kind of kicked in from a learnings is group work, how to manage different types of people. We all have very different personalities in the world we're in, and trying to make sure we stay on track, we meet our goals and deadlines. Um, but again, still remembering that these are still people, they bring individual lives to the table, different circumstances on a personal level, I'm sure. And WGU created coursework that allowed me to understand what a good leader is supposed to look like, but that doesn't always translate to the real world. And you need to find ways to bridge that gap. And having come into this industry of schooling and the types of personalities that come with that versus what I have been used to in my past really allowed me to put a lot of my learnings into practice. So this was a really good experience overall. Learnings to practice in a matter of three, four years of getting my my masters.

Speaker 18:15

Amazing. And having worked with you, I can confirm that you are you have strengths in those areas that you are a great people person. So thank you. It worked.

Speaker 1 18:27

At least for now, right? You never know.

Speaker 18:30

Yeah. Yeah. So because you work in ed tech, uh educational technology, how has having this degree changed the way you view non-traditional educational formats?

Embracing Non-Traditional Paths

Speaker 1 18:44

Yeah. So I'll give a little bit of a background story. And we may have actually talked about this at one point, but newsflash, I actually left my four-year bachelor's university to go be an electrician, go into the trades. Um it was very short-lived, very short-lived. Uh, but there's still a small part of me that yearns for that world of non-traditional vocational trades, even the cosmetology of the world. I mean, think about it. These are the people that are providing us our lives, uh the capability to do this interview today. Um I think non-traditional anything sometimes is the best way to go in life because you open up possibilities you would have never thought of. When I was in high school, the premise was you have to go to a four-year university. You have to be traditional and follow the status quo. And it wasn't my favorite. My favorite was being around people, doing things differently, being able to be the own purveyor of my destiny and WGU from a perspective that I already had a bachelor's and now I'm looking to advance career. It answers that. But then you have the portion of me that really appreciates the people of the world and the foundational people that we rely on without realizing it. Um, so I'm very, very happy to be in the sector of working on it, but also having been there once myself as well.

Speaker 20:08

And I think at least I I hear a lot of talk among tech circles and also the entertainment industry where I got my start. People are a little worried about where that industry might be headed. And in some cases, they're saying, I wish I had that foundation in the trades or or something that was outside of what I studied uh to fall back upon. Totally.

Speaker 1 20:31

There is there is endless amounts of opportunities out there for things that we all probably take for granted uh from time to time that are good paying, short education time frame relative to, you know, going to massive loads of debt to get a degree, um, which I did. So I'm I'm certainly part of that number. But having gone from that to WGU and seeing the other aspects, I can certainly say the non-traditional is absolutely the way

Advice for Accelerated Learning

Speaker 1 21:02

to go.

Speaker 21:03

So now let's talk about some of the advice that you might have for potential students. Um, I know we talked about it a little bit, and WG is really known for allowing people to go really fast uh through the program. And uh that doesn't work for everybody. Some people take a couple years, it's really at your pace. What's your advice for someone who wants to go fast without just burning out and completely or just skimming through it and not actually learning anything?

Speaker 1 21:32

Yeah, I I I totally get that. And I've been on both sides of the aisle uh when it comes to going quick, but also just wanting to get things done. And it I think the driver for me is this was going to affect my career, which is many decades still in the making. The more I take out of it now, the more I understand what they're trying to teach me and provide me in terms of professional. Capabilities, the more I know I'll be able to apply it throughout my professional career for sure, but also just in life in general. And I can say that without a doubt, it has maybe a better and more effective communicator, uh, leader stepping up in the times that it needs to happen. So it really is individual-based. Who are you as a person? Do you know yourself well enough to know I can go quick? I've done this before in some aspect or another. I can say certainly that um COVID changed the course of education, at least in America, for a lot of kids. Yeah. That they went from in-person to struggling to figure out how to learn remotely. Uh, some can do it and some cannot. And again, I always thought that I was just a hands-on in-person person. Uh, this allowed me to learn that I can straddle between both those worlds. But I would genuinely say that for new prospective students, they've probably had some type of remote coursework in their time to a certain degree. Even high schools now are doing a lot of remote work every now and then, that they'll know. They'll they'll be able to really trust themselves as much as humanly possible. And for those that are willing to take the leap but aren't totally sure, that's where the advisory usually kicks in at that point. They can be pushy, again, in the right way, to make sure, hey, I haven't seen any coursework be submitted in over a week. How are things going? Anything that we need to be aware of. We really want to make sure that you proceed in a timely fashion if that's what you so choose to do. And that's the goal that I set out from the very beginning. I said, I want to finish this in one term. So they put me on a plan to make sure that I attain that. So they compensate if you're not totally sold on the idea that you can make this happen as quick as you think you can, they will push you, but they will also be honest with you. And you just have to be willing to accept that um clarification from them when the time comes where they say, We're halfway through the course and we're not halfway through all the materials that need to be done. Perhaps we should start thinking about a different approach. And the flexibility needs to be key too. You are probably doing this degree, at least many are doing this degree while at work, potentially, or raising a family, or just honestly so fresh and young to the market that you haven't really had time to get your feet wet. All these personalities come together. You work yourselves out between you and a school, and honestly, it will work out. As long as you want it bad enough, it will work out.

Speaker 24:44

I love that. It's amazing. The sub the level of support that you're describing is is beyond what uh what I expected for that school. Because I know it's a pretty large school, so that's that's amazing.

Speaker 1 24:56

It is. It is. I don't know how many advisors get students, but I do know that it's clearly enough that they can dedicate the time and resources to really make sure that you succeed. As long as you want to, yeah. And they will push you and they will help you.

Speaker 25:08

Yeah. And for those prospective students, beyond uh listening to your advisor and following the plan that they've laid out for you, were there any apps or tools or anything that really were helpful for you?

Speaker 1 25:24

That's a really good question. So this was before AI really became a thing. So I want to be very careful. Obviously, having AI write your papers and so solve everything for you isn't the way to go. Yeah. But I do think that in the day and age that we're in today, it can be a valuable tool to supplement a lot of the learnings that you're going through. My degree maybe not as much, but more technical or data-related degrees. I think it'd be a really good, useful tool to at least keep on the side. In the moment while I was there, a lot of it was um the materials and resources that they actually gave you within the WGU library, which was pretty extensive, if I'm going to be honest. A lot of different um job-related materials, real life examples, um, historical information that props up a lot of what they're trying to prepare you for throughout your coursework. That all encompassed the tools that I used at least. Uh, and I would just say don't limit yourself to just WGU, be willing to go look at other case studies that exist out there. We all live in a case study. Every single day, the market provides another case study. So use what you can that applies to the learnings that you have and be willing to stumble here and there. And as long as you want to find the information to prop up your learnings and your degree work, it'll it'll be had.

Speaker 26:47

So if someone's watching this and they're pretty sold on the idea of going back to school, but they're a little worried about the cost and the time, what what does that person need to hear?

Navigating Costs and Time in Education

Speaker 1 27:02

Take your best case scenario and multiply it by two. And if you're comfortable with either uh the time or the money or both, then I would say cross the other 10% and just do it. There's a lot of opportunities in the world once you get that next degree, the next certification, the next diploma, whatever it is. And if the barrier is time or money, which obviously for degrees at all, those are the two contributing factors, um dedicate double the time in your head, especially up front, and you may find yourself drawing back and finishing sooner than you thought. Obviously, we all have goals of wanting to finish in one term. I did, but I did realize that if I had to, I would have been more than accepting of the reality that if I had to double my time and double the money, that it would have been worth it in the long run. And to be very fair, it would have been perfectly fine. I would have had no complaints. I think where you get the type of personality that is going to just rush to finish it and get it over with, those are the people that will get it done in one term, but they'll just click the buttons they need to click, digest nothing, and move on. So again, if you come up with the right mindset, you're going to succeed really well. They want you to succeed beyond what you can even imagine, because obviously then you're a returning student at that point. Maybe you want to learn something new, want to apply it to a different career phase. Maybe you change your mind and you want to change your career space. That's the other benefit about non-traditional, is you can change your mind after you have something, you know, in your back pocket in your quiver, uh, to something totally different if you need to. We all live a long life. We can change our minds and go down different paths if we so choose. Sometimes you need some degree or certification to do that. And at least in WGU's instance and you know, tools I've worked with on a day-to-day basis, those capabilities are out there. It's just up to you to make it happen.

Speaker 28:59

That is that is great advice. I I especially like the idea of doubling it um because I hadn't I hadn't actually considered that. Uh, but it does give you that padding so that you don't feel like, oh, I'm falling behind, I'm falling behind, I can't do that. And and I know at least in my studies, I had to take a little bit longer than I thought I would. And that there's that feeling of guilt of like, oh, I should have been going faster. But had I expected, okay, well, this could take twice as much time, might have been easier on me.

Speaker 1 29:31

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. We all put mental pressures on ourselves. If you can put that mental pressure on ahead of time, give yourself the space, you'll succeed. It will be perfectly fine.

Speaker 29:43

I love it. Is there anything else that we didn't cover that you think we should have covered?

The Value of Lifelong Learning

Speaker 1 29:50

I you know, I think I just can't harp on enough. I think obviously traditional has its place in the world. I am certainly not advocating totally against it ever. But I think for those that don't know what they want to do, those that have questions on all the different fields and capabilities, certifications, diplomas, um, you know, don't box yourself into a corner. We do live in a world where a lot of stuff is virtual that can be. And I'm a big believer in have whatever certifications you can that you think are applicable to the life you want to live. And I really recommend places like WGU for me, after doing a lot of research, finding the best place, that took a bachelor's that was very expensive and a lot of time invested and allowed me to advance my knowledge base and my leadership capabilities uh in a matter of a term, but at the same time attaining some real lifelong knowledge that I find to be invaluable in how I approach people and professionalism overall.

Speaker 30:53

That's fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me today. And uh I wish you all the best applying these skills to your career because I know you will do such a great job. You you do do such a great job of that. So uh thank you. Well, thank you very much. I really enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Danny Schwantes. Just a reminder, you can now find audio Degree Strategy episodes at DegreeStrategyPodcast.com so that you can listen on the go. Also, there's a link in the YouTube description and the podcast show notes for my free online college blueprint that'll help you pick the right school the first time. Thanks for watching or listening, and I'll see you in the next one.